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. >> wayne lapierre has said gaming creates violence. what do you say to that? >> the average gamer is about 35 years old now. it's male, it's female, it's old, it's young and there are game offerings of all genres. i think with any decision you have to choose wisely, depending on who the audience is. the influences are out there in society in all shapes and forms. >> do you think games will look different as a result, maybe not this year but two years from now, three years from now in large. >> i think it's going to represent mainstream entertainment and it's going to gravitate toward the things people are interested in. there are supports gamers, there are casual gamers, there are core gamers and their tastes vary differently based on their age and what interests. >> hollywood movies could say the same thing, too. >> exactly. >> jack, congratulations. we look forward to seeing it. please come back. >> thank you. appreciate it. >> looking to free yourself from your mobile service provider's monthly data usage fees? what if one company actually rewarded you for
. >> wayne lapierre has said gaming creates violence. what do you say to that? >> the average gamer is about 35 years old now. it's male, it's female, it's old, it's young and there are game offerings of all genres. i think with any decision you have to choose wisely, depending on who the audience is. the influences are out there in society in all shapes and forms. >> do you think games will look different as a result, maybe not this year but two years from now, three years...
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. >> reporter: it is the influence of wayne lapierre and the national rifle association that makes gun advocates like diane feinstein, to say it will be an uphill battle. >> they come after you, they put together large amounts of money to defeat you. >> reporter: but he is on a mission to convince his colleagues. >> we need to wake members up to the fact if they want to do the right thing and join us on gun reform, there is not a political referendum like maybe a decade or two ago. >> reporter: during the 2010 campaign, the nra flooded the area with ads regarding guns, and sherrod brown, and figures for the nonresponsive politics shows that the nra spent over $4 million on the senate campaigns, losing seven out of eight races where they spent over $100,000. money is not the only way to measure influence. >> i think that the nra as a single issue group, is extremely potent as a political force out there. and even though their success rate was less than 50% with their outside spending in the last election, they have these members, millions of members they can mobilize who are strongly mo
. >> reporter: it is the influence of wayne lapierre and the national rifle association that makes gun advocates like diane feinstein, to say it will be an uphill battle. >> they come after you, they put together large amounts of money to defeat you. >> reporter: but he is on a mission to convince his colleagues. >> we need to wake members up to the fact if they want to do the right thing and join us on gun reform, there is not a political referendum like maybe a decade...
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Feb 24, 2013
02/13
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. >> that was wayne lapierre, executive vice president of nra. joining me is patrick leahy of vermont. is that true? you know that's what some gun owners fear, is that a background check is nothing more than a way to get registration. >> no, it's not going to be registration. of course, the speaker knows that, but he's paid very well to stir up his membership and help increakreecrease dues-paying me. i think we need to stop the rhetoric. i'm a gun owner. a lot of people in my state of vermont are gun owners. i know the last time i went in to purchase a firearm, hi to go through a background check. i didn't have any problem with doing that. >> and what do they do with that information? when you go in and say, this is my name, address, phone number. no, don't have any mental health problems. they put it in a background check and what happens with that? >> they check to see if you told the truth and then it's cleared out. >> it gets deleted, is what you're saying. >> yes. but what happens, i don't mind having a background check for me, but i don't s
. >> that was wayne lapierre, executive vice president of nra. joining me is patrick leahy of vermont. is that true? you know that's what some gun owners fear, is that a background check is nothing more than a way to get registration. >> no, it's not going to be registration. of course, the speaker knows that, but he's paid very well to stir up his membership and help increakreecrease dues-paying me. i think we need to stop the rhetoric. i'm a gun owner. a lot of people in my state...
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Feb 24, 2013
02/13
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. >> that was wayne lapierre, executive vice president of the nra speaking last night at the western hunting and conservation expo. joining me now is senate judiciary chairman patrick leahy of vermont. is that true? you know that's what some gun hunters, gun owners fear, that a background check is nothing more than a way to get registration? >> no, it's not going to be registration. of course the speaker knows that, but he's paid very well to stir up the -- his membership and to help increase dues paying members but we ought to lower the rhetoric and talk about reality. i'm a gun owner. a lot of people in my state are gun owners. i know the last time i went in to purchase a fire arms i had to go through a background check. i didn't have any problem with doing that. >> what do they do with this information? this is my name, this is my address, this is my phone number. i don't have any mental health problems. what do they do with this when they put it in a background check? >> if they are told the truth and it is cleared out -- >> deleted is what you're saying? >> yes. but what happens
. >> that was wayne lapierre, executive vice president of the nra speaking last night at the western hunting and conservation expo. joining me now is senate judiciary chairman patrick leahy of vermont. is that true? you know that's what some gun hunters, gun owners fear, that a background check is nothing more than a way to get registration? >> no, it's not going to be registration. of course the speaker knows that, but he's paid very well to stir up the -- his membership and to...
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Feb 13, 2013
02/13
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as for the nra, the gun lobby's outspoken wayne lapierre is holding a news conference to respond to the state of the union speech. as for the justice department study, the nra is not saying how it it got it. wolf? >> do we expect there to be separate votes on gun control, one on the magazines, one on assault-type weapons, one on universal background checks or are they going to try to wrap it up into comprehensive piece of legislation? >> i think that's undecided at this point. harry reid is a big gun enthusiast and what that office is saying right now whatever coming out of the judiciary committee, they are looking at an assault-weapons ban, high-capacity magazines and universal background checks will get a vote. there will be a vote on some of these measures. there will be amendments avow lowed. as for the president, he called for a vote and it looks like he'll get them. >> separate votes but -- >> he'll get votes. >> we'll see what he can achieve on these sensitive issues. jim acosta, thanks very much. >>> president obama hit the road today. >>> also, another day on a hot ship overflo
as for the nra, the gun lobby's outspoken wayne lapierre is holding a news conference to respond to the state of the union speech. as for the justice department study, the nra is not saying how it it got it. wolf? >> do we expect there to be separate votes on gun control, one on the magazines, one on assault-type weapons, one on universal background checks or are they going to try to wrap it up into comprehensive piece of legislation? >> i think that's undecided at this point. harry...
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Feb 19, 2013
02/13
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. >> wayne lapierre runs the nra. he's a fascinating and in my view a very dangerous character. he has done complete u-turns on background checks. he used to be in total favor of universal background checks. he was in favor of all schools being gun free. now he wants the opposite. everything is geared towards now with the nra and the leadership, not the membership, but the leadership toward the sale of guns and ammunition. >> and the recommendations are to keep the flow and sale of guns. 3 million guns are imported to the united states every year, 5 million guns that are manufactured here are sold. the nra is funded by the gun lobbyists. i say to smith & wesson, to remington, all the other gun manufacturers, what about putting a gps chip in those guns? you assume the responsibility and cost. i have proposed this to white house, to congress. put a gps chip in that gun. so the responsible gun owner whose house gets robbed by some little punk, and those guns are sold to the bad guys, you should be able to act vite it like i have an ipad, and if somebody steals my ipad, i can activa
. >> wayne lapierre runs the nra. he's a fascinating and in my view a very dangerous character. he has done complete u-turns on background checks. he used to be in total favor of universal background checks. he was in favor of all schools being gun free. now he wants the opposite. everything is geared towards now with the nra and the leadership, not the membership, but the leadership toward the sale of guns and ammunition. >> and the recommendations are to keep the flow and sale of...
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because wayne lapierre is snow saying universal background checks don't work. i saw this testimony he gave in 1999 to the house judiciary committee and he said, quote, we think it's reasonable to provide mandatory instant criminal background checks for every sale at every gun show. no loopholes for anyone. >> the answer is yes, the nra has changed their position. the reason it's changed their position is because the system doesn't work. the system is not working now. we have to get that working before we can add any more checks to that system. it's already overburdened. in colorado, it takes ten days to do an instant check. >> you're saying if it got working, if the existing laws started to be improved, you might support the imposition? >> i don't know. let's get it working. let's make sure the 23 states that aren't reporting the names of people who are mentally ill and have violent tendencies, let's get them reported into the system. >> i don't understand why you can't do both. the reality is, yes, 60% of sales require a background check. >> gale brought up th
because wayne lapierre is snow saying universal background checks don't work. i saw this testimony he gave in 1999 to the house judiciary committee and he said, quote, we think it's reasonable to provide mandatory instant criminal background checks for every sale at every gun show. no loopholes for anyone. >> the answer is yes, the nra has changed their position. the reason it's changed their position is because the system doesn't work. the system is not working now. we have to get that...
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lapierre, who you are aware is the head of the nra. listen to him. >> gun control, you could ban all dianne feinsteins, do whatever she wants to with magazines, it's not going to make any kid safer. >> okay. they're buddies now. >> they're not buddies. consider the audience that joe biden was talking to. joe biden is good at making deals on the hill because these talking to these guys as equals. we know what's what, i'm not going to promise you the moon, this might make a little bit of a difference. here's the way policy-making works in general. you have a crisis, you break glass in case of emergency. there's some policy agenda that's been collecting dust on the shelf and you break it out. remember the iraq war, same thing. 9/11 happens, iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but a lot of people wanted to invade iraq -- so, they thought, hey, this san opportunity. it relates to terrorism -- >> there's some people who think you're talking crazy talk there >> there are people who want gun control. there was a political opportunity to push gun
lapierre, who you are aware is the head of the nra. listen to him. >> gun control, you could ban all dianne feinsteins, do whatever she wants to with magazines, it's not going to make any kid safer. >> okay. they're buddies now. >> they're not buddies. consider the audience that joe biden was talking to. joe biden is good at making deals on the hill because these talking to these guys as equals. we know what's what, i'm not going to promise you the moon, this might make a...
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Feb 15, 2013
02/13
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because he has put out sensible solutions versus wayne lapierre and the nra and wayne lapierre rants that he put out in the "daily caller" yesterday, again focused on the fear that you just talked about, carol. talking about hispanic gangs going crazy. talking about those people in brooklyn after sandy. i mean, it was just a very racist rant that does not do any good for their position. and the reality of it is, carol, the positions -- the proposals that the president has put out are very sensible. there's a quinnipiac poll that came out yesterday that essentially said that 56% of americans, a majority, not a huge majority, but a majority, support bans on assault weapons on and on the high-capacity magazine clips. 92%, carol, support the universal background checks. >> but there's no chance of -- this community leader also says, you can talk about banning assault weapons all you want. but you have to get to the root of the problem. and the problem she says, isn't so much about guns, it's about the gun culture. and the culture of violence. >> i agree. >> especially on the main streets
because he has put out sensible solutions versus wayne lapierre and the nra and wayne lapierre rants that he put out in the "daily caller" yesterday, again focused on the fear that you just talked about, carol. talking about hispanic gangs going crazy. talking about those people in brooklyn after sandy. i mean, it was just a very racist rant that does not do any good for their position. and the reality of it is, carol, the positions -- the proposals that the president has put out are...
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Feb 26, 2013
02/13
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wayne lapierre from the nra says the only means of security is the second amendment. when the glass breaks in the middle of the night, we have a right to defend ourselves. he was wildly applauded. you know that he said you aren't free if you can't defend yourselves. that was him speaking at an event on saturday night. how do you tackle that kind of mentality in light of this debate about stand your ground? >> you try to be very open and honest about them, and ask them, as sybrina and tracy have said so many times, it's not personal until it comes to your doorstep when you lose your child to senseless violence. last year, before trayvon was tragically killed, there were many people who knew little about the stand your ground law until it came out that his killer was not arrested because this stand your ground law, and that's important that we realize what this movement was about. his killer was only part of the symptom of the problem. the problem is that we had the stand your ground law that encouraged vigilante justice. if he would have just waited in the car, trayvon
wayne lapierre from the nra says the only means of security is the second amendment. when the glass breaks in the middle of the night, we have a right to defend ourselves. he was wildly applauded. you know that he said you aren't free if you can't defend yourselves. that was him speaking at an event on saturday night. how do you tackle that kind of mentality in light of this debate about stand your ground? >> you try to be very open and honest about them, and ask them, as sybrina and...
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lapierre in a video from 1999. testifying he supports background checks. >> we think it is reasonable to provide mandatory instant criminal background checks for every sale and every gun show. >> reporter: last week during a cnn town hall on gun control, a drastically different position. >> we are not supporting more back ground checks of law abiding people. >> reporter: ad created to put pressure on lawmakers to fall in step with the overwhelming majority of americans, polling shows, support background checks on all gun purchases. politics aside the most sentimental spot goes to budweiser. ♪ the spot featuring the horse. it rates ads by polling consumers. one of the highest rated ever. so well liked even the man behind a competing ad for century 21 said the horse won hands down. >> i thought it was a good call. there were definitely some standouts, as there always were. i had my favorites. >> what's your favorite? >> i had -- between three. i love ed the clydesdale spot f budweiser. it gets to you. >> when it co
lapierre in a video from 1999. testifying he supports background checks. >> we think it is reasonable to provide mandatory instant criminal background checks for every sale and every gun show. >> reporter: last week during a cnn town hall on gun control, a drastically different position. >> we are not supporting more back ground checks of law abiding people. >> reporter: ad created to put pressure on lawmakers to fall in step with the overwhelming majority of americans,...
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and in this ad it features the nra's executive vice president wayne lapierre in a video back from 1999 in which he said that he supports universal background checks on gun purchases. but last week, during a cnn town hall on gun control, the nra made it very, very clear that the group's leaders do not support universal background checks. listen to that. >> there is a cost to this kind of basically bureaucracy, why should a law abiding citizen who isn't a problem, who is not a criminal, should have to go through additional background checks? why should we spend scarce law enforcement resources spending money on background checks of law abiding people who aren't the problem? >> that was sandy froman, an nra board member. we can't talk about the gun debate, of course, without showing this photo. take a look. this was released saturday. white house releasing this photograph of the president using a shotgun. part of skeet shooting up at camp david, an effort to show the president has, quote/unquote, profound respect for america's hunting traditions as he told the new republic in an interview
and in this ad it features the nra's executive vice president wayne lapierre in a video back from 1999 in which he said that he supports universal background checks on gun purchases. but last week, during a cnn town hall on gun control, the nra made it very, very clear that the group's leaders do not support universal background checks. listen to that. >> there is a cost to this kind of basically bureaucracy, why should a law abiding citizen who isn't a problem, who is not a criminal,...
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Feb 28, 2013
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. >> this is wayne lapierre's remark. and so on and so on. pretty insulting and coming from a man who seems to me his sole purpose is try to guarantee that no controls are brought into prohibit the sale of guns. >> that is right. they oppose everything the atf to do their job. they have made it difficult to keep data. they have made it difficult to do proper research. also that manufactures of weapons can produce more. and then they press all of this. it is a gun culture. that culture is letting bad things happen. >> well, you are doing a fantastic job on this tonight. >> piers, thank you you have been wonderful thank you so much for your help. it is uphill all the way. thank you very much indeed. >> thank you. >> joining me now is william beg. he was in the emergency room on the day of the sandy hook massacre. thank you for coming back on the show. you showed everybody today how guns really work in the real work. i want to show a little part of what you did today. >> looks like we have a well placed hit. get that out of the way. there is the
. >> this is wayne lapierre's remark. and so on and so on. pretty insulting and coming from a man who seems to me his sole purpose is try to guarantee that no controls are brought into prohibit the sale of guns. >> that is right. they oppose everything the atf to do their job. they have made it difficult to keep data. they have made it difficult to do proper research. also that manufactures of weapons can produce more. and then they press all of this. it is a gun culture. that...
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Feb 3, 2013
02/13
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in fact, wayne did mention it off hand, in march of 1993 wayne lapierre was on "face the nation." he made the point that we believe very strongly that those people need to be included in the system for background checks. >> if john mccain's 2010 campaign, when he ran for president, is the most memorable campaign of any that i have covered. we will never see it again. he was facing george w. bush who had the republican party backing him and the three republicans from new hampshire and all the money. john mccain held 114 town meetings and stayed there until every question was answered. you can see the light will go on in people's heads. john mccain said we are not going to get a patient's bill of rights. next question. it was this refreshing candor. he was totally open to the press. it was a cantor and openness, sort of a welcome this that no one had seen before and no one has seen since. longtime columnist -- >> longtime paul -- longtime columnist on his career in politics. tonight at 8:00. she never set foot in washington. her husband, benjamin harrison tie -- benjamin harrison, d
in fact, wayne did mention it off hand, in march of 1993 wayne lapierre was on "face the nation." he made the point that we believe very strongly that those people need to be included in the system for background checks. >> if john mccain's 2010 campaign, when he ran for president, is the most memorable campaign of any that i have covered. we will never see it again. he was facing george w. bush who had the republican party backing him and the three republicans from new...
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Feb 15, 2013
02/13
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this caller is plugged into what wayne lapierre is talking about. he thinks the president has a secret agenda that will end up with the confiscation of guns and the takeover of towns and neighborhoods and our country. that is ridiculous. of steps opinion is out with gun owners in this country. host: from twitter -- as one of the sponsors of the assault weapons ban of 2013, tells about the exemptions. guest: i encourage anybody who has this question to go and read the assault weapons ban that we introduced some weeks ago. that bill actually lists several thousand weapons that would not be illegal under the law. that is not an includes a list. it is just a set of examples of weapons, over 10,000 weapons, that would still be available to individuals. the assault weapons ban says that a gun that has a detachable clip and another military feature like a pistol grip, that would be reserved for military usage. the thousands of weapons today that are used largely for hunting and sports shooting would still be available that is a really good resource. i cann
this caller is plugged into what wayne lapierre is talking about. he thinks the president has a secret agenda that will end up with the confiscation of guns and the takeover of towns and neighborhoods and our country. that is ridiculous. of steps opinion is out with gun owners in this country. host: from twitter -- as one of the sponsors of the assault weapons ban of 2013, tells about the exemptions. guest: i encourage anybody who has this question to go and read the assault weapons ban that we...
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Feb 16, 2013
02/13
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lapierre who says black people will loot and riot, so everybody needs guns -- host: on guns? caller: when we get these people home and they do not have jobs because congress is blocking jobs, and they have ptsd, and we have all these problems in this country, i am wondering, should these people have access to 30- round assault weapons? guest: henry, thank you for your call and comments. the basic idea -- you're touching on issues like gun control and many other different things. the question is, can our people come back from afghanistan and have an gainful employment when they come back? the answer has to be, the nation has to do it in such a way that the answer must be yes. the reality of the situation is that unfortunately for many veterans, their unemployment rate is many -- is much higher than it should be, particularly in comparison to their civilian peers. this is a wake-up call for employers to take a look and see what they can do to help veterans that have so valiantly fought for our country in afghanistan and iraq, help them achieve their personal goals, whether it i
lapierre who says black people will loot and riot, so everybody needs guns -- host: on guns? caller: when we get these people home and they do not have jobs because congress is blocking jobs, and they have ptsd, and we have all these problems in this country, i am wondering, should these people have access to 30- round assault weapons? guest: henry, thank you for your call and comments. the basic idea -- you're touching on issues like gun control and many other different things. the question...
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Feb 3, 2013
02/13
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at 2, chris wallace with wayne lapierre of the nra and captain mark kelly, co-chair of americans for responsible solutions. on cnn, defense secretary panetta, secretary dempsey, and former labor secretary elaine chow. bob schieffer talking with nfl commissioner roger goodell. these are brought to you as a public service by the networks and c-span. beginning at noon with nbc's "meet the press." 1:00, this week. 2:00, fox news sunday. and finally at 4:00 p.m. eastern, face the nation from cbs. listen to them on c-span radio, 90.1 fm radio, nationwide on xm 119, on your smartphone or on- line to c-spanradio.org. >> john mccain's 2000 campaign when he ran for president is the most memorable campaign of any that i have ever covered or been around. we will never see it again. george w. bush had all of the face cards, the republican governors, the backing of all of the money. john mccain went and held 114 town meetings and stayed until every question was answered. you see the light bulb going on over these heads. we will never get a patient's bill of rights until my party is not owned by th
at 2, chris wallace with wayne lapierre of the nra and captain mark kelly, co-chair of americans for responsible solutions. on cnn, defense secretary panetta, secretary dempsey, and former labor secretary elaine chow. bob schieffer talking with nfl commissioner roger goodell. these are brought to you as a public service by the networks and c-span. beginning at noon with nbc's "meet the press." 1:00, this week. 2:00, fox news sunday. and finally at 4:00 p.m. eastern, face the nation...
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Feb 27, 2013
02/13
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so did wayne lapierre in 1999. what is he saying today? well, today, before senator leahy, when asked, you don't support background checks in all instances at gun shows, mr. lapierre responds, we do not. because the fact is, the law right now is a failure the way it is working. none of it makes any sense in the real world. well, i would submit to my good friend, mr. moran, that this is the real world. and we're dealing with real people and i know that he would like to comment from your perspective on the state of gun violence and the lack of gun violence prevention in this country. and i would like to yield to you. mr. moran: i thank the very distinguished gentlelady from california. thank you for heroically sharing with us that horrific experience that you went through in your very early adulthood and that understandably continues to shape your view of gun violence . hopefully others will hopefully others will share that view without having to go through that experience. thank you for putting a face on the tragedy at newtown and the gun v
so did wayne lapierre in 1999. what is he saying today? well, today, before senator leahy, when asked, you don't support background checks in all instances at gun shows, mr. lapierre responds, we do not. because the fact is, the law right now is a failure the way it is working. none of it makes any sense in the real world. well, i would submit to my good friend, mr. moran, that this is the real world. and we're dealing with real people and i know that he would like to comment from your...
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Feb 16, 2013
02/13
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host: air are the specifics -- -- here are the specifics -- wayne lapierre slammed the president's state of the union speech. guest: his behavior has been just bizarre since this episode in newtown. the week after, we were hopeful that the gun lobby would come to the table and try to help us put in place some common-sense gun measures as they have in the past. what the nra has become which is a representative of a very extreme wing of gun owners in this country and they lobby for gun manufacturers. they did not use to be. these to come to capitol hill and lobby for restrictions on gun ownership that made sense. la pierre become divorced from the majority of gun owners in this country who support things like universal background checks. he lives in a fantasy world where he thinks the agenda behind those of us who want to keep our kids say is to take the guns away from his members and legitimate gun owners. that is just a lie. i hope he and his colleagues stop saying it because i support the second amendment but i support the real second amendment. i'm a supporter of the second amendment t
host: air are the specifics -- -- here are the specifics -- wayne lapierre slammed the president's state of the union speech. guest: his behavior has been just bizarre since this episode in newtown. the week after, we were hopeful that the gun lobby would come to the table and try to help us put in place some common-sense gun measures as they have in the past. what the nra has become which is a representative of a very extreme wing of gun owners in this country and they lobby for gun...
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Feb 1, 2013
02/13
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in fact, in march of 1993, some time ago, wayne lapierre on "face the nation" and he made the point that those people need to be included in the system for background checks. he and charles schumer is a shook hands and said, i can help you do that. that was 1993. as gabrielle giffords' husband mentioned, some 150,000 people have been so adjudicated have not been put in the system. one of the witnesses was the police chief from baltimore county who is an advocate of universal about crown checks. he did not mention that his governor had said that they are not in favor of putting the mentally ill into the system. sometimes it is for financial reasons, sometimes it is because as senator franken has said he is against that because it is not want to stigmatize the mentally ill. we know that people that have mental problems are no more likely to commit a crime that you or i. but there are people who are not in a gray area. those people that have been adjudicated to be severely mentally ill. had the system that is in place in virginia which we advocated been in place earlier, the virginia tech s
in fact, in march of 1993, some time ago, wayne lapierre on "face the nation" and he made the point that those people need to be included in the system for background checks. he and charles schumer is a shook hands and said, i can help you do that. that was 1993. as gabrielle giffords' husband mentioned, some 150,000 people have been so adjudicated have not been put in the system. one of the witnesses was the police chief from baltimore county who is an advocate of universal about...
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Feb 1, 2013
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in fact, i'm sorry that we -- he did mention offhand, but in march of 1983, some time ago, wayne lapierre was on face the nation with charles schumer and wayne made the point that we made strongly those people need to be included in the system background checks. you charles schumer shook hands and said i can help you do that. that was 1993. as gabby giffords's has been yesterday mentioned, a thousand people so adjudicated have not been included on the system. one of the witnesses there yesterday was that please shoot of baltimore county who is an advocate of universal background checks. he didn't tensioned earlier in the week as governor said they are not in favor of putting the mentally ill into the system. .. would not have been able to buy the firearm he had been adjudicated. we think that and have been urging it for a long time. we think it ought to be done. we think the system needs additional funding and to be straight end out. it's operated efficiently and cleaned up. to take the system and throw millions of people in to it, as it exists today would be a serious error. >> we're goi
in fact, i'm sorry that we -- he did mention offhand, but in march of 1983, some time ago, wayne lapierre was on face the nation with charles schumer and wayne made the point that we made strongly those people need to be included in the system background checks. you charles schumer shook hands and said i can help you do that. that was 1993. as gabby giffords's has been yesterday mentioned, a thousand people so adjudicated have not been included on the system. one of the witnesses there...